lyceemoliere Posted April 8, 2005 Report Share Posted April 8, 2005 A few days I logged on and saw a rather unnerving posting about possible discontinuation of HI MD units in Australia. When I logged on today the posting had disappeared. Does anyone know more about the posting and the topic it addressed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishiyoshi Posted April 8, 2005 Report Share Posted April 8, 2005 It was lost during the recent forum's technical issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted April 8, 2005 Report Share Posted April 8, 2005 Yes, we didn't delete any posts. I got a scathing private message from another user who had thought we deleted threads. If you weren't there when it happened, the forum was down for a very long period of time and we lost about four days worth of posts in the process due to some woes with the SQL server. Everyone is free to repost the topics that they lost, and I most certainly apologize for the error. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazer78 Posted April 9, 2005 Report Share Posted April 9, 2005 so the 2nd generation hi-md units aren't coming out in australia? darn.. i really wanted that rh-10 =( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atrain Posted April 9, 2005 Report Share Posted April 9, 2005 as i said before. anecdotal evidence from retailers support this, aparently 1st gen himd just didn't sell. the pricing is just too high here.the guy who posted this originally works at sony australia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zathura Posted April 9, 2005 Report Share Posted April 9, 2005 It was I who originally posted about the possible death of Minidisc in Australia.As soon as I posted it, I had another think about the repercussions of what I had just done, and when the thread became lost, I thought that it was a good thing since the evidence was now gone...But now that I have thought again, I want it to become common knowledge in the hope that the decision can be overturned...But all Aussie minidisc fans need your support.Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazer78 Posted April 10, 2005 Report Share Posted April 10, 2005 well.. i guess the minidisc's sold in Australia are overpirced... 800 dollars for mznh1 =Sbut if the 2nd gen units are cheaper, u might see changing trends in Australia . I have yet to see an mp3 device outmatch sony's superior bass (sold in Australia of course) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MZ-NH1 Posted April 10, 2005 Report Share Posted April 10, 2005 ^^ Completley agree! I paid $600 for my MZ-NH1, bought it from Retravision when Sony were still selling it for $800, but what a rip off $800!!!Maybe $500 would be a good starting price to see sale revenue increase?You can't always make a profit straight away when releasing a new product! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozpeter Posted April 10, 2005 Report Share Posted April 10, 2005 Maybe Australians are slow to take to new technologies. Recently Teac CD players with built in hard drives (iPods on steroids) have been dumped on the market here for $299 (Austrlian dollars, say 120 pounds sterling) - and still not being swept off the shelves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MZ-NH1 Posted April 10, 2005 Report Share Posted April 10, 2005 Well no offence but Teac aren’t the best of brands... I don't think Aussies are slow to take up technology at all, heaps of people have an iPOD.The thing is, heaps of my friends have the basic NetMD's which they just use for music, and they don't see any reason to buy a $800 latest model, if their MD does what they want...iPOD's are advertised everywhere, on TV, sides of busses, taxis, everywhere.I have not seen ONE MD advertisement in Australia at all. Seriously!Maybe Sony needs to have a look at their promotional side of things, and actually see how they promote this kind of new technology.When I first got my MZ-NH1, and found out I had to re-encode all my mp3's I was very angry, and told all my friends how crap Sony MD's were. Now marc has made the conversion tool... and 2nd Gen MD's now have mp3 support, I'd strongly recommend an MD to a friend, if the prices were A LOT lower! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozpeter Posted April 10, 2005 Report Share Posted April 10, 2005 I have not seen ONE MD advertisement in Australia at all. Seriously!Maybe Sony needs to have a look at their promotional side of things,Very good point!I was being a little unkind about Australians and new technology, I admit. In the UK people were more prone to buying the latest thing for the sake of it - here people tend to be more selective perhaps. Ooops, now I've upset another national group.Those Teac HD CD players are rebadged "Perception Digital" units, actually. I've been pretty pleased with the one we got. It's chiefly useful for a member of our household who uses a wheelchair and who has problems with getting the CDs from shelves and inserting them in the player. To be able now to access the whole lot from a remote is a great boon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MZ-NH1 Posted April 10, 2005 Report Share Posted April 10, 2005 I was being a little unkind about Australians and new technology, I admit. In the UK people were more prone to buying the latest thing for the sake of it - here people tend to be more selective perhaps. Ooops, now I've upset another national group.Completely agree, I think people here do tend to be a bit more selective, especially if the product is so dear!I'm not upset... if you're referring to me Just staining some facts that Sony seem not to care about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazer78 Posted April 10, 2005 Report Share Posted April 10, 2005 the partial reason why the hi-md units are so expensive because sony tell u that they GIVE you for FREE this bonus pack, which includes this electret microphone, 10x 80min md's and a quick charger. Apparently they've already integrated this FREE pack into the cost of the minidisc unit itself . So that would explain the high prices... looks like we'll have to by our md's from minidisc.com.au now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MZ-NH1 Posted April 10, 2005 Report Share Posted April 10, 2005 You saying that a charger, blank discs and a microphone equate to $200-300 worth?! I recon that is pretty ridiculous!You won’t believe this. I bought my MD from Retravision as I said above, which came with the 'free' T mic. I want the next model up, which sold for $219 at Sony shops... the T Mic sold for $150 I am pretty sure... anyway I went to Sony asking whether i could give them the T mic, and buy the next level up, and pay the difference, and the guy said no, for the reason, that the T mics were produced for $50, and that at Sony they sold them for $150, so he would only give us $50 off the next level up mic!!!! That is how much of a profit Sony are making on their products, and I recon that is just bloody ludicrous, and ripping off the general public!$100 mark up price, for a shitty little mic!How much of a profit do you recon they were making on their MD's?? $300 profit for every MD sold!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zathura Posted April 10, 2005 Report Share Posted April 10, 2005 You saying that a charger, blank discs and a microphone equate to $200-300 worth?! I recon that is pretty ridiculous!You won’t believe this. I bought my MD from Retravision as I said above, which came with the 'free' T mic. I want the next model up, which sold for $219 at Sony shops... the T Mic sold for $150 I am pretty sure... anyway I went to Sony asking whether i could give them the T mic, and buy the next level up, and pay the difference, and the guy said no, for the reason, that the T mics were produced for $50, and that at Sony they sold them for $150, so he would only give us $50 off the next level up mic!!!! Untrue. Regardless of however much it costs Sony to make, you attempted to broker a deal with a Sony salesman, and he is trying to make money.The cost price of those T mics at the moment are $90 or so. What the guy was trying to do was only give you a $50 discount, so they make more money. You wil find that this has happened on numerous occassions with other retailers, and most are more accomodating that your experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zathura Posted April 10, 2005 Report Share Posted April 10, 2005 $100 mark up price, for a shitty little mic!←Also remember that even if it was a $100 markup, this has to be shared between Sony, the retailer, and factor in other things, such as freight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atrain Posted April 10, 2005 Report Share Posted April 10, 2005 this is why i import when ever i can. the costs of freight & japanese or us prices is still around 60-70% of local. the best bricks & mortar in australia is easily jbhifi for price matching & discounts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozpeter Posted April 10, 2005 Report Share Posted April 10, 2005 I've always had the impression that typical markup in the audio etc retail industry is such that something sold for $100 retail costs $30 wholesale - and the best profit is in accessories.And (for local readers!) don't assume that JB is the cheapest all the time - I've seen them offering something for twice the price of David Jones. You've always got to do your homework and compare a few prices from a few outlets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zerodB Posted April 10, 2005 Report Share Posted April 10, 2005 Also a lot to do with the ridiculously high whole-sale sales tax... Aparently it came down with the introduction of the GST a while back - but the prices are still through the roof.It's not that Aussies are not keen to pick up the latest tech - no, it's not that at all - it's more a case of the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" scenario - why adopt MD when we are content with our tape recorders and portable CD players!Technologies such as mobile telecommunications and such are flourishing in Australia, because people see the benifits and revolutions that they provide. Other technologies, such as digital TV and radio are recieved with limited reception here - people just don't see the point in replacing their old gear, or burning money on new stuff when the old gear does what they want just fine.It's not old fashioned, it's more about technology adapting to people, rather than the other way round.My opinion: It will be a sad day indeed when MDs are no longer available in AUS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazer78 Posted April 10, 2005 Report Share Posted April 10, 2005 lol, well here in sydney, or at least the area i'm in lots of people are keen to buy md's they just don't have the cash.. importing from e-stores is significantly cheaper, though people avoid e-stores because of security scares etc.lets just hope sony will release this 2nd generation into austalia. if prices are low"ered" i'm sure that the md market will be revived in australia.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zathura Posted April 11, 2005 Report Share Posted April 11, 2005 I've always had the impression that typical markup in the audio etc retail industry is such that something sold for $100 retail costs $30 wholesale - and the best profit is in accessories.←Unfortunately, this is a common perception of many. But its very untrue. I have heard from a lot of retailers, especially lately, copping a lot of shit from people who think that the retailers are trying to screw them with 200% markup.Apart from the retailers who still sell at SRP, most sell for a pretty slim margin.On another point, Sony's Australian market research has shown that Australia is becoming a nation of "cheapskates" if you will, flocking to technology that is cheap, such as $88 DVD players from Dick Smith and Big W.These technologies hide behind the pretext of 3 year warranties, which many consumers feel safe with. But, the thing is, many forget that just because it has a 3 year warranty, doesnt mean its a good piece of technology to start with...In addition, research has shown that the perception of consumers is that there is no real gap between Sony and its cheap competition in terms of quality and that all brands are mostly the same, so price dictates which one to buy.This is very unfortunate.And in the case of portable media, many have flocked to cheap MP3 players, and no longer see the relevance of technology such as MD. Ignorance of consumers in regard to quality will be the death of MD in Australia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clocker Posted April 11, 2005 Report Share Posted April 11, 2005 $88 DVD players from Dick Smith and Big W.There's nothing wrong with $69 DVd players from coles, the technology is getting on and mine has worked for 20 months, no problem and it's loaded with features (will even play JPEGs off a data disc). Even if it broke down after 12 months it was only $69 ffs, who cares about quality and warranty, at these prices the technology is disposable. Atleast that's the attitude I had when I bought it.I made a similar rant about the cost of Aus MD recorders and there's got to be a scandal somewhere in all of this.Maybe Australians would buy more consumer electronics if they were priced in line with other countries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazer78 Posted April 11, 2005 Report Share Posted April 11, 2005 Maybe Australians would buy more consumer electronics if they were priced in line with other countries.←Amen to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zerodB Posted April 11, 2005 Report Share Posted April 11, 2005 To think I paid around $500 AU for my N510 a couple of years back.I paid dearly, but have since learned my lesson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MZ-NH1 Posted April 11, 2005 Report Share Posted April 11, 2005 No way was I goign to buy my MZ-NH1 at Sony for $800... probably a month after it was released...So I did lots of research, trying to find the cheapest place which sold the unit... untill I found a Retravision store in Redfern that solf it for I think it was just under $600... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zathura Posted April 11, 2005 Report Share Posted April 11, 2005 That was a very good price then. When it first came out, the cost price was $581. I know cause thats when I bought mine :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sefu Posted April 12, 2005 Report Share Posted April 12, 2005 I thought I would post my thoughts from a retailers point of view, I disagree on some of the points that have been posted.First all, it seems like everyone is comparing Australian RRP vs Rest of the world street prices. The only people who sell at RRP are Sony Style and Harvey Norman.After selling these units for around 5 years I can tell you the pricing and deals and much better now than 5 years ago. When NetMD was introduced the RRP for the N1 was $899, The N707 was $599 and N505 was $499.Compare it to todays RRP of the current units that have long superseded the above unitsNH1 RRP $699NH700 RRP $399NH600 RRP $299And with the current units they come with a bonus pack which is damn good value.Ok lets do some comparisons with real street prices. I will compare our prices (thats only prices I know off the top of my head ) with a Singapore estore.The Singapore eStore price does not include postage, taxes and duty (legally have to pay but many people avoid it) Nor does it include any type of Australian warrantySingapore eStoreMZ-NH1 @ $486AUDMZ-NH900 @ $416AUDMZ-NHF800 @ $409MZ-NH700 @ $359MZ-NH600 @ $286Just to make it clear, the above prices do not include shipping, taxes and duty (10% GST + 3% duty)Our priceMZ-NH1 @ $599MZ-NH900 @ $499MZ-NHF800 @ $429MZ-NH700 @ $349MZ-NH600 @ $259Our prices include 10% GST, to get the price ex GST divide our price by 11 to get the taxIf you were to pay taxes and duty plus the freight the total cost will far exceed our prices and lose warranty and no bonus pack. If you were to "avoid" taxes and duty (at your risk) you would only make a saving on the top 2 models, the saving is around $60 - $70 (assuming shipping was $40 - $50).On the lower models its much cheaper to get them here, even if you went to SG and picked it up. And plus you get the bonus pacK!Personally I would pay the extra $60 for the bonus pack and for the local warranty. There is nothing worst then sending back your unit overseas for repair which takes who knows how long.There is suggestion that Sony and/or retailers are exploiting customers. I don't think thats the case. Sony and retailers are around to make profits, if they did not make profits they would not be around to bring us new products. Sony and/or retailers are free to charge whatever they like as long as they feel the customers see it as value.There have been a few MD advertisements and usually in prime time TV. But Sony do not advertise as much, as for instance Apple. Not sure why but its common of Sony not to advertise that much. Maybe it has sometime to do with the short life cycle?The Bonus packs are not tied into the pricing. The prices of MD are much cheaper now with the bonus packs compared to last years models without the bonus pack. The only people making a loss from the bonus pack is Sony themselves. It looks like they added the bonus packs to stop imports.To sum it up I don't think Aus prices are as bad now. They are more inline as described above and come with a better deal from the rest of the world.The Hi-MD blanks found in Australia are the cheapest found anyway in the world. You cannot beat $4.95AUD each! If this doesnt show commitment then what does?Remember our GST is 10%, Asia has GST of around 3% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zathura Posted April 12, 2005 Report Share Posted April 12, 2005 Well said, Sefu. Wholeheartedly agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atrain Posted April 12, 2005 Report Share Posted April 12, 2005 i do agree with you up to a point sefu, i did pay $789 for my mzn1. i have been pushing your price on himds for a while, it'd work out cheaper for US buyers to purchase from you shipping included. not that they tend to listen.i also noted that bluetin's [a singapore estore] pricing on the hdd nw series has been well above your own, even before postage. however comparisions with new US pricing leaves australian prices looking exeedingly high. whilst some pricing variables like smaller market so greater cost of support & higher taxes & duties make up part of the gap, US$29 for ex71sl vs AU$95 don't hold water for me. this is not any relflection on yourself & your store, more on the pricing regeime set for australians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sefu Posted April 12, 2005 Report Share Posted April 12, 2005 Thanks for that. I just wanted to put a opinion from a store side of things. I just wanted to point out that the assumption that Australian prices are not a total rip off, they were back in the day but the general assumption should be gone now. Things are getting better.Now if you compare our prices with the US pricing then I do agree with you, however I think the main reason of the pricing is the fierce competition over in the US. There are so many more stores and so many more consumers. These stores have a lot more competition in the US compared to Australia. I imagine the mark up in the US is horrible and these stores are making money on QTY.The only way for Sony to compete in the US is to match or better the price of the iPod. Consumers in the US are very price concious and you can say they are a lot more "tighter"From what I've seen a lot more accessories are taken out of the US sets to make them "cheaper"Just my 2 cents about the US market, I don't know all that much about it, I'm just making points from what I have seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sefu Posted April 12, 2005 Report Share Posted April 12, 2005 Oh, I think if anybody should be complaining its New Zealanders. I was told they had to pay $15NZ per Hi-MD disc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zerodB Posted April 12, 2005 Report Share Posted April 12, 2005 Sefu, I considered purchasing an MDP from you guys a while back... but I found the $475.00AUD price for an E620 quite ridiculous when a certain Singapore e-store could offer it for $200AUD less. I know that this unit is a Japanese import, so it's a slightly different story, but even so, the end price was about ~150 less after postage and purchasing a local adaptor from an electronics store - about 30% off your listed price. In the end, of course, I went with the Singapore e-store (bluetin). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted April 12, 2005 Report Share Posted April 12, 2005 I think it's great that someone from Sony, a rep from Australia's largest MD seller and many Australian MD consumers have come together to talk about this. It's very interesting to read this from a point of view that has no real relevance to your various woes..Perhaps with MD coming down in price compared to the past things will fare for the better - or, it may be too late. I'll slip this one out though, I had a certain skyther message me last night on MSN about the RH10. He was so fond of it because of the features, but mostly the price. I knew then at that very moment that something truly profound had occured and Sony may be doing the right thing.Perhaps they'll phase out Hi-MD and then bring it back in some coy marketing campaign like "New Coke". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sefu Posted April 12, 2005 Report Share Posted April 12, 2005 Sefu, I considered purchasing an MDP from you guys a while back... but I found the $475.00AUD price for an E620 quite ridiculous when a certain Singapore e-store could offer it for $200AUD less. I know that this unit is a Japanese import, so it's a slightly different story, but even so, the end price was about ~150 less after postage and purchasing a local adaptor from an electronics store - about 30% off your listed price. In the end, of course, I went with the Singapore e-store (bluetin).←I would probably of done the same thing.To be honest with you we don't sell many MDP, therefore we are unable to negotiate a better deal. We will probably eventually get rid of them off our site totally and concentrate whats available in the Australian market.MDR are far better sellers in Australia. We stock many many more MDR compared to MDP.Yeah I guess we all know who that "eStore" is I didn't want to mention the name because it may of looked like I was bagging them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zerodB Posted April 12, 2005 Report Share Posted April 12, 2005 I would probably of done the same thing... Yeah I guess we all know who that "eStore" is I didn't want to mention the name because it may of looked like I was bagging them.←Haha! Though unfortunatley it seems that in recent times that "eStore" has pulled MDPs altogether. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazer78 Posted April 12, 2005 Report Share Posted April 12, 2005 lol, ok now back to one of the main question i had asked previously... are 2nd generation hi-md units coming out in Australia? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MZ-NH1 Posted April 12, 2005 Report Share Posted April 12, 2005 Aparently not at the moment according to a Sony employee in Australia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sefu Posted April 12, 2005 Report Share Posted April 12, 2005 I didn't see the original post with the reason why Sony Australia would not bring in the 2nd gen units.I don't see why Sony Au would not. If they did not bring them in then they would make a major lost as they are removing a large part of their walkman line up.Generally we see new units come in around July.I think it would be a stupid move if Sony removed MD from their line up, especially considering that Hi-MD is doing a lot better now, with MP3 support it just adds a firmer product.I think its too early to call anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MZ-NH1 Posted April 12, 2005 Report Share Posted April 12, 2005 I think the reason was because Australian's didn’t embrace the technology, and they sold extremely poorly the Hi-MD's....If I recall correctly...Zathura did start the original post, so maybe as to what exactly he has heard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clocker Posted April 12, 2005 Report Share Posted April 12, 2005 (edited) I guess we pay a premium fo living on the ass-end of the world....and sefu whilst the price reductions on new models in recent years has been great in Australia, this would also be true for the rest of the world I'm sure. Meaning we are in the same position. Most 1st gen hi-MD's can be found between 40 and 50% cheapers at American online stores. I'd hate to imagine what Aussie stores would have sold the RH10 for.What do we reallly care if sony doesn't bring hi-MD here? Most people on this site source them cheapily from overseas sites.I have often bought overseas models to save on consumer electronics (I bought my US playstation in los angeles months before it was released in australia). Edited April 12, 2005 by Clocker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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